Author Topic: World Basic Income  (Read 1009 times)

harnett

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World Basic Income
« on: September 07, 2016, 16:39:57 GMT »
Would anybody like to comment on this radical idea for Public (?) Finance.... http://worldbasicincome.org.uk/

John Short

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Re: World Basic Income
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2016, 18:34:08 GMT »
"One way that wealth can be shared out is by a government or organisation collecting money through taxes, levies or fees, and then giving a share of that money unconditionally to everyone, to spend as they see fit."

If the "authorities" can't get the basic tax system sorted internationality there is the first stumbling block.  Then who shares it out - existing governments?  I can see that working out............

Nice idea in a utopian sense but unfortunately utopia has got to have its equivalent in its administrative capacity.

harnett

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Re: World Basic Income
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2016, 08:51:11 GMT »
Admittedly shades of utopian thought there, though we can look at some tax proposals which would bypass a reform of the present system: FTT (supported by Bill Gates!), intellectual property, etc.  There's an interesting article in the economist which just calculates UBI from the present welfare budget, but of course that would only be of benefit in richer countries. http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2016/06/daily-chart-1 

Attached is a document that explores UBI in the UK which goes alongside reforms of the tax system, many of which I would think you'd agree with e.g. "Unified Income Tax (UIT).  The current Income Tax system and the entire National Insurance Contributions system would be replaced by a single Income Tax structure which would be clear and progressive."  For sure the UK tax system needs addressing. It is shocking that the poorest 10% pay over 45% of their gross income in tax and all other deciles pay between 30 and 35%.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2016, 09:06:36 GMT by harnett »

John Short

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Re: World Basic Income
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2016, 10:16:33 GMT »
There is a huge difference between recognising that National Insurance in the UK is an income tax and should be combined - I am sure that has been argued on the Board elsewhere - and what and is being suggested writ large in the BWI.  The pursuit of the perfect is the enemy of the good in tax matters!

See http://pfmboard.com/index.php?topic=6441.msg19505#msg19505

Interesting that both the far right and the far left are in agreement!
« Last Edit: September 08, 2016, 11:51:25 GMT by John Short »

harnett

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Re: World Basic Income
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2016, 16:31:59 GMT »
Yes Basic Income is a funny one politically.  Many on the right wing like it as it can eliminate welfare.  Milton Friedman "sort of" was a proponent!

World Basic Income

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Re: World Basic Income
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2016, 17:41:46 GMT »
John - you are right of course, establishing global taxation certainly feels a long way off at present, as does disbursing money around the globe every month without issues. But basic income as an idea within nations seemed utopian five years ago, and now everyone is talking about it. Times change...

If we are ever to achieve even the vaguest semblance of economic justice between nations (rather than just within them), we will need to invent some forms of redistribution from rich to poor. A world basic income would be a highly egalitarian and corruption-proof way of doing that. Putting in place the collection mechanisms would be a huge challenge, but proposals for carbon taxes and financial transaction taxes are already well-progressed, and prominent economists have put global capital taxes on the agenda. There are already stacks of global systems and agreements in operation that transfer resources around - the WTO, IMF, etc etc. Global taxation of global corporations or transactions is surely not so different?

Regarding how the scheme would be administered, at the moment we envisage that a global entity (a branch of the UN, World Bank, ILO - whichever was the best fit, or a new one if needed) would collaborate with each national government over identification requirements and so on, but would disburse the money directly from itself to citizens, probably using new-ish technologies such as mobile money where bank account coverage is low. Again, that is new and radical, and would certainly be resisted by some governments, but we imagine that significant political pressure from citizens to be allowed their entitlement would help to nudge the thing forward. If the world wanted to give everyone that I know some free money every month, but the UK government was refusing to allow it, I imagine they might reallocate their votes. In democratic states this might do the trick, and even dictators can get toppled when their self-interest is so glaring.

These are big challenges for sure. The very purpose of the World Basic Income organisation is to begin to pull together research on potential solutions to such challenges, and to begin the long slow process of mobilising support for this idea. We are well aware it won't be easy - but imagine what it could achieve if we manage it! Similar organisations are getting started elsewhere too - Japan, Germany, The Netherlands - so we're not alone in getting the wheels in motion.

John Short

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Re: World Basic Income
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2016, 21:39:37 GMT »
Thanks for the post. 

I am not against this in principle but have concerns about getting the nuts and bolts right.  Using mobile technology works- vide Kenya where many if not most people have mobile phones but not bank accounts.  It would be good to simplify and sort out the tax systems around the world as a first step - see the Revenue Framework Board on the PFMBoard for postings on that. There does not appear to be any political will anywhere on that despite much talk!

However, what do others who read the board think? Here's your chance to contribute to an interesting topic and perhaps present your own country's situation and likely response...
« Last Edit: September 08, 2016, 21:41:08 GMT by John Short »

harnett

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Re: World Basic Income
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2016, 11:43:04 GMT »
Here's a easy way to get into the subject.  15 or so mins on youtube  https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1006&v=aIL_Y9g7Tg0

harnett

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John Short

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Re: World Basic Income - Impact of AI examined
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2023, 08:10:01 GMT »
Interesting article on AI and UBI  by Philippa Kelly with references  to many studies

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2023/nov/16/ai-is-coming-for-our-jobs-could-universal-basic-income-be-the-solution
« Last Edit: November 17, 2023, 09:24:28 GMT by Napodano »

 

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